It seems like forever since we started looking for a broker to assist us in locating a boat. We decided that this would be a good idea since 1) we are first time buyers and 2) we are about 1000 miles from the nearest ocean. The problem has been finding one. What we wanted was someone that knew more than the average about catamarans and could assist us in locating and "pre qualifying" the boats (so our trips to the coast wouldn't consist of a lot of time spent looking at junk). It hasn't been an easy task.
I started by consulting the oracle for any reviews or recommendations we could find. I quickly found that there weren't any glowing recommendations for brokers, only a couple of "beware" comments, and none that mentioned catamarans specifically. So, we then started looking for brokers specializing in catamarans in Florida since we figured that would be the most likely location for finding a boat. From there we would read the bios of the brokers and search for any comments specific to the broker. When we found one we liked, we would send out an introductory email.
After a number of emails, we got a single response. Initially he said he was busy but would look into things for us and get back to us. About a week and a half later, we get an email stating he was going to be working on a charter for the summer and would have an associate of his...in Washington State...contact us. It took another couple weeks before his associate contacted us...but that was OK since we wanted someone in Florida and had moved on anyway.
We decided to try and contact a couple of the brokers that we had initially contacted about specific boats we were interested in (and who responded) to see if they would be able to help us as a buyers broker. After what we thought was an email miss-communication we thought we found one. We agreed that it would be a good idea to chat on the phone and he suggested talking on a Saturday afternoon. I didn't get a response when I asked for a time and so we ended up waiting around starting at 10am on Saturday (noon in Florida).
We waited patiently at home for the call until about 4pm. At that point we gave up as we needed to get some chores done. He finally called...on Sunday evening. We weren't there so he left a message that he was "out on the water" over the weekend. He didn't offer any sort of apology for missing the initial call, even when we later explicitly mentioned that we waited most of Saturday for his call. Not a good demonstration of the communication abilities we will need for this process.
We decided to write this guy off when he contacted us via email again to say he would have "one of his associates" work with us. We didn't really expect much, and were pleasantly surprised when his "associate" contacted us almost immediately. He setup a day and time to call us and called when he said he would. He has also provided us with a number of listings just to help gauge what we are looking for in a boat. He seems to understand the difficulties we are trying to work around shopping from a distance and thus far has also provided a lot of useful information on the boat buying process. So, after disappointing performance from a number of professional boat brokers, this latest hand-off seems to be a promising prospect. Glad we gave him a chance even after the poor experience from his "associate".
Given the economy and that the typical commission on a boat is 10% (5% to buyers agent, 5% to sellers agent), I'm surprised that it's been this much of an exercise to find someone willing to help us spend $100~180k. I know we aren't looking at multi-million dollar boats, but a motivated buyer with cash ought to be worth something.
I think we finally have a buyers broker. Now to find our boat.
Tuesday, March 26, 2013
Sunday, March 10, 2013
The Annapolis Book of Seamanship
It's winter, we're in Colorado, and I'm trying to find a buyers agent (thank you to those who suggested it) so we can purchase our first sailboat. Unfortunately, as is usually the case this time of year, it's been cold and snowing and just not conducive to anything sailing. Trying to keep something sailing going on in my life while we try to locate a good agent, I stopped by the local library to see if I could at least find a little light reading. As you might imagine, libraries in a land-locked and rather arid state don't have a lot of titles on sailing, but I did manage to find The Annapolis Book of Seamanship.
I would not consider this book to be "a little light reading" (although the hardcover version might be useful as a self-defense weapon). It seems to be more of a reference for everything you need to know as a sailor. While I haven't read through it all yet, what I've read thus far seems to provide more detail and theory than the textbooks we used during our sailing classes (so it appeals to my engineering side that loves to know how things work). I now better understand the sail plan/rig options and the concept of hull speed and am getting a jump on understanding the use of a spinnaker (one sail not covered in any of our classes yet).
While I would prefer to have electronic copies of most books that will be going on the boat (they can be heavy you know), there are some that I think we want in print so we can access them even if we have no power or charged batteries. I was thinking our class texts would be good candidates for print copies, but maybe this one will take the place of a couple of the other books...if I can find a paperback version.
I would not consider this book to be "a little light reading" (although the hardcover version might be useful as a self-defense weapon). It seems to be more of a reference for everything you need to know as a sailor. While I haven't read through it all yet, what I've read thus far seems to provide more detail and theory than the textbooks we used during our sailing classes (so it appeals to my engineering side that loves to know how things work). I now better understand the sail plan/rig options and the concept of hull speed and am getting a jump on understanding the use of a spinnaker (one sail not covered in any of our classes yet).
While I would prefer to have electronic copies of most books that will be going on the boat (they can be heavy you know), there are some that I think we want in print so we can access them even if we have no power or charged batteries. I was thinking our class texts would be good candidates for print copies, but maybe this one will take the place of a couple of the other books...if I can find a paperback version.
Monday, February 18, 2013
Off Grid and Off Land
One of the big appeals of the Cruising Lifestyle to us is the ability to live off-the-grid. As we work to narrow down our boat options, I'm currently taking a look at all the various systems and how to best meet our needs in a low-impact (both ecological and financial) manner. Things that we pretty much take for granted on land by just paying a bill now need to be taken into greater consideration. Propulsion, electronics and lighting, heat and air conditioning, cooking and refrigeration, hot and cold running water, etc. all require additional thought.
Lets take that last item of hot and cold running water as it makes a good example. To have water on a boat (yes, there is some irony here as you are floating in it) you need a means of holding fresh water, filling the tank, heating the water, pressurizing the system so it will run, and getting the used water back out of the boat.
Live-aboard boats typically have fresh water tanks, so the only real concern is the size of the tank (and I have no idea what to say about the size we might need at this point).
Filling the tank is another story. To get fresh water into the tank, you can fill it up at a marina or run water jugs from shore in a dinghy, but that costs time and fuel in addition to the cost of the water itself. You can run a water maker to convert that water you are floating in to fresh water, but that takes energy and you need relatively clean sea water to begin with. Catching rain water seems to be the lowest energy usage option, but requires the weather to cooperate as well as appropriate clean surfaces to catch the rain and the ability to channel it into storage.
Now that you have fresh water, you want some of it to be hot. Homes can have solar hot water, and I did find at least one supplier of smaller marine solar water panels. Due to the power consumption requirements, I don't think an electric heater is viable. Tankless gas (propane) heater is a typical option. but that uses gas that then needs to be supplied to the boat. Some systems use the heat generated by the engine(s) to heat water, but those require the engines to be run periodically to keep the temperatures up.
Getting the water flowing, both to the sinks and showers as well as from them, requires pumps. There are manual pumps as well as electric ones. I suppose you could run pumps on other fuel sources, but I imagine that is incredibly inefficient.
So, there is a lot to consider just looking at hot and cold running water. Other systems have similar considerations. Now we don't want to be spending all our time (or for that fact money) lugging fuels and water to the boat. We also don't want to be leaving a large carbon footprint.
Electricity seems to be the best "fuel" option for many things. With solar and wind generators, it should be in reasonably good supply. It can run pumps, refrigeration, lights and electronics. There is no doubt that we'll have solar and possibly wind to generate power.Unfortunately it isn't very efficient for cooking (I've heard a microwave can drain a typical boat battery bank in a matter of minutes). Seems that propane fits the bill here. Would be nice to find a lower impact option.
For hot water, solar would be nice if it would work and propane makes a reasonable backup. For propulsion (when we are not using wind), electric would be a nice option, I just wonder if the technology is up to the task. Otherwise we will be relegated to either gasoline or diesel. Maybe we could do a hybrid....hmmmm.
Lets take that last item of hot and cold running water as it makes a good example. To have water on a boat (yes, there is some irony here as you are floating in it) you need a means of holding fresh water, filling the tank, heating the water, pressurizing the system so it will run, and getting the used water back out of the boat.
Live-aboard boats typically have fresh water tanks, so the only real concern is the size of the tank (and I have no idea what to say about the size we might need at this point).
Filling the tank is another story. To get fresh water into the tank, you can fill it up at a marina or run water jugs from shore in a dinghy, but that costs time and fuel in addition to the cost of the water itself. You can run a water maker to convert that water you are floating in to fresh water, but that takes energy and you need relatively clean sea water to begin with. Catching rain water seems to be the lowest energy usage option, but requires the weather to cooperate as well as appropriate clean surfaces to catch the rain and the ability to channel it into storage.
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| ECHOTec Water Maker components |
Now that you have fresh water, you want some of it to be hot. Homes can have solar hot water, and I did find at least one supplier of smaller marine solar water panels. Due to the power consumption requirements, I don't think an electric heater is viable. Tankless gas (propane) heater is a typical option. but that uses gas that then needs to be supplied to the boat. Some systems use the heat generated by the engine(s) to heat water, but those require the engines to be run periodically to keep the temperatures up.
Getting the water flowing, both to the sinks and showers as well as from them, requires pumps. There are manual pumps as well as electric ones. I suppose you could run pumps on other fuel sources, but I imagine that is incredibly inefficient.
So, there is a lot to consider just looking at hot and cold running water. Other systems have similar considerations. Now we don't want to be spending all our time (or for that fact money) lugging fuels and water to the boat. We also don't want to be leaving a large carbon footprint.
Electricity seems to be the best "fuel" option for many things. With solar and wind generators, it should be in reasonably good supply. It can run pumps, refrigeration, lights and electronics. There is no doubt that we'll have solar and possibly wind to generate power.Unfortunately it isn't very efficient for cooking (I've heard a microwave can drain a typical boat battery bank in a matter of minutes). Seems that propane fits the bill here. Would be nice to find a lower impact option.
For hot water, solar would be nice if it would work and propane makes a reasonable backup. For propulsion (when we are not using wind), electric would be a nice option, I just wonder if the technology is up to the task. Otherwise we will be relegated to either gasoline or diesel. Maybe we could do a hybrid....hmmmm.
Wednesday, February 6, 2013
How Do You Buy A Boat From 1000 Miles Away?
This is a question I've been grappling with for quite a while now. The middle of Colorado is about 1000 miles from the nearest ocean. The largest bodies of water in the state are what I'm sure many in other places would call ponds. Needless to say, there aren't a large selection of boats you (or at least we) would consider living on full time. Even if there were, we would still need to get it to the ocean where we want to be. And I don't think we could sail it down the creeks we call rivers here (even though a few rubber ducks may fit).
The internet certainly makes some research much easier. Since we decided to go with a catamaran we've been looking at various boat specifications, plans and pictures online. A task that would have been much more difficult 30 years ago without the web. But I'm still a visual person, and I really need to see these boats in person. What I see in a picture and reality often differ.
Of course, trying to see every possible boat that might work would only lead me to singlehandedly fund the US airline and hotel industry...and not something I can do for long if I actually want to buy one and sail away. So we've got to narrow things down a bit.
The "longer list" of catamarans that might work (basically every catamaran that we could find that were sufficient to live aboard and under 40ft) are:
I know there are a few readers that have some knowledge or experience...so if you have any insight on what you would choose (or have chosen), I'd love to hear any thoughts. We're looking for a coastal cruising liveaboard boat that may make occasional longer passages and can accommodate 2 plus 2 dogs and guests. Oh, and while the more reasonable the price the better, I'd better throw out a cap of $180K or so.
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| Rubber Ducks on Boulder Creek |
Of course, trying to see every possible boat that might work would only lead me to singlehandedly fund the US airline and hotel industry...and not something I can do for long if I actually want to buy one and sail away. So we've got to narrow things down a bit.
The "longer list" of catamarans that might work (basically every catamaran that we could find that were sufficient to live aboard and under 40ft) are:
- Fountaine Pajot Athena 38
- Fountaine Pajot Mahe 36
- Fountaine Pajot Tobago 35
- Gemini 3200/105M/105Mc
- Lagoon 35 CCC
- Lagoon 37
- Lagoon 380
- PDQ 32 (& LRC)
- PDQ 36 (& LRC)
- Prout 33 thru 37
I know there are a few readers that have some knowledge or experience...so if you have any insight on what you would choose (or have chosen), I'd love to hear any thoughts. We're looking for a coastal cruising liveaboard boat that may make occasional longer passages and can accommodate 2 plus 2 dogs and guests. Oh, and while the more reasonable the price the better, I'd better throw out a cap of $180K or so.
Right now the top 3 on our list seem to be the PDQ 32 & 36 LRC versions, and the Lagoon 37. While some boat-specific items were considered, most of the appeal of the above is based on the creature comforts. So, to my friends and family reading, feel free to click thru the links above and provide any thoughts you may have as well.
Tuesday, January 29, 2013
The Denver Boat Show
Yes, believe it or not, Denver does have an annual boat show. It happens in mid January (yep, when the average water temperature is ICE). Our local sailing school was able to hook us up with free passes, so we attended this year.
If you are looking for a super fast ski boat with a million watt stereo and neon light accents, this is your boat show.
Other than speedy toys, the other focus of the show is related to fishing. Given our biggest bodies of water here are reservoirs, I can't blame them for this focus...Colorado just isn't a place for a large, live aboard yachts.
There were a total of 3 sailboats at the show. One was a J/22 from our Colorado sailing school (and I'm pretty sure we did sail on it during our lessons). The other two were from the one and only sailboat focused "dealership" in the Denver area. Of those, one was a 24 foot or so day sailing boat and the other was a Hobie trimaran.
One interesting thing we saw was an inflatable kayak from Hobie that comes with their mirage drive and even has an optional sail package. I wonder if we'd have enough room on a boat for it.
They have one and two person versions and if they were ocean worthy, might be an economical and fun option to a typical dinghy or for when you need a second option.
There were also a number of antique motor boats that were at the show and were interesting to see. We missed seeing Twiggy the Water-skiing Squirrel but he was there as well.
So, while the show lacked much in the sailing category, and is a completely different type of show than the Annapolis one, it was still worth a visit...especially for free.
If you are looking for a super fast ski boat with a million watt stereo and neon light accents, this is your boat show.
There were a total of 3 sailboats at the show. One was a J/22 from our Colorado sailing school (and I'm pretty sure we did sail on it during our lessons). The other two were from the one and only sailboat focused "dealership" in the Denver area. Of those, one was a 24 foot or so day sailing boat and the other was a Hobie trimaran.
One interesting thing we saw was an inflatable kayak from Hobie that comes with their mirage drive and even has an optional sail package. I wonder if we'd have enough room on a boat for it.
There were also a number of antique motor boats that were at the show and were interesting to see. We missed seeing Twiggy the Water-skiing Squirrel but he was there as well.
So, while the show lacked much in the sailing category, and is a completely different type of show than the Annapolis one, it was still worth a visit...especially for free.
Friday, January 18, 2013
A Good Book on Cruising in the Caribbean
There has been a book that has been mentioned on several blogs that I follow. I finally got a chance to read "An Embarrassment of Mangoes: A Caribbean Interlude" by Ann Vanderhoof.
The book chronicles the real-life two-year trip of Ann (a publisher) and her husband as they put their careers on hold and sail from Canada thru the Caribbean and back and how that trip changed their perspective on a great many things. You are introduced not just to the locales that they visit, but the people they meet along the way and the challenges of making a lifestyle change like this. At the end of each chapter you are also introduced to some of the local cuisine they encounter in the form of recipes.
It is not the typical travel book and is a very good read for anyone that is considering this sort of lifestyle.
The book chronicles the real-life two-year trip of Ann (a publisher) and her husband as they put their careers on hold and sail from Canada thru the Caribbean and back and how that trip changed their perspective on a great many things. You are introduced not just to the locales that they visit, but the people they meet along the way and the challenges of making a lifestyle change like this. At the end of each chapter you are also introduced to some of the local cuisine they encounter in the form of recipes.
It is not the typical travel book and is a very good read for anyone that is considering this sort of lifestyle.
Wednesday, January 9, 2013
Looking At Boats in Florida - The PDQ 36 LRC
10 days on two boats was most of our trip to Florida, but we did have a few more days before we returned to Colorado. Since we think we'll be going with a catamaran, it would be nice if we could see a few before we left. Thanks to some of my looking thru boat listings, I did have at least a very basic idea of what we should be looking at.
Since it is just going to be the two of us, our dogs, and some occasional visitors (I do hope), a large boat would seem to be much more than we need. The 41 foot Maine Cat we took lessons on was home for 7 people for our class and trip. It was way more than enough for a smaller crew and the added expense of a large boat goes against one of the reasons we are doing this.
The smallest catamarans suitable for living aboard seem to start just larger than 30ft. The requirements (we think) we have for accommodations at this point are:
The PDQ 36 is a nice boat. It's obviously well constructed with two queen berths at the front of the bridge deck just behind the trampoline, one accessed from each hull.
Behind the large berth in one hull you will find a good size galley mid hull, with a rear compartment that has been apparently configured based on the original owner's specifications (It can be a double berth, storage, or I've even heard one case where it was setup as a mini dive shop with air compressor and everything).
Behind the berth in the other hull is a nav station with seating, a desk, and the usual electrical control panel. At the rear of this hull you find the head with a separate shower enclosure (no wearing a curtain here).
The bridge deck also supports a large seating area or saloon behind the two queen berths and it can be converted to additional sleeping area if needed. The interior has quite a bit of space that is very well configured. There is also a lot of teak flooring and other wood accents that make the space warm and inviting.
Moving back from the saloon you exit to the cockpit. The cockpit is covered by a hard bimini. Unlike many catamarans, the cockpit is rather small and well enclosed. Not very suitable for a party or dining al fresco, but might feel very secure while on passage.
Since this was the LRC version, instead of the usual outboard engines, this boat has twin diesels in the back of the hulls. My understanding is that the outboards are lighter and can be swung up into the hull to reduce drag, but the inboard diesel engines are considered more reliable and are better for battery charging and auxiliary water heating. I'm not sure which is the better choice...as they seem to say with all things boating...it's a compromise.
Other than the cramped feeling of the cockpit, I'm pretty impressed with this boat. Of course, I don't exactly have a lot of knowledge of these size boats...having only seen a couple of them new at the Annapolis boat show. I do think the PDQ's will likely be on our short list.
Since it is just going to be the two of us, our dogs, and some occasional visitors (I do hope), a large boat would seem to be much more than we need. The 41 foot Maine Cat we took lessons on was home for 7 people for our class and trip. It was way more than enough for a smaller crew and the added expense of a large boat goes against one of the reasons we are doing this.
The smallest catamarans suitable for living aboard seem to start just larger than 30ft. The requirements (we think) we have for accommodations at this point are:
- A queen size or better master berth.
- Accommodations for two or more guests.
- A boat that will be comfortable at anchor as well as at sail.
- A shower I don't have to wear.
- Low draft.
- Gemini 105mc
- PDQ 32 and 36
- Fountaine Pajot 35
- Lagoon 35 and 37
The PDQ 36 is a nice boat. It's obviously well constructed with two queen berths at the front of the bridge deck just behind the trampoline, one accessed from each hull.
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| Photo courtesy of www.pdq36.com |
Behind the large berth in one hull you will find a good size galley mid hull, with a rear compartment that has been apparently configured based on the original owner's specifications (It can be a double berth, storage, or I've even heard one case where it was setup as a mini dive shop with air compressor and everything).
Behind the berth in the other hull is a nav station with seating, a desk, and the usual electrical control panel. At the rear of this hull you find the head with a separate shower enclosure (no wearing a curtain here).
The bridge deck also supports a large seating area or saloon behind the two queen berths and it can be converted to additional sleeping area if needed. The interior has quite a bit of space that is very well configured. There is also a lot of teak flooring and other wood accents that make the space warm and inviting.
Moving back from the saloon you exit to the cockpit. The cockpit is covered by a hard bimini. Unlike many catamarans, the cockpit is rather small and well enclosed. Not very suitable for a party or dining al fresco, but might feel very secure while on passage.
Since this was the LRC version, instead of the usual outboard engines, this boat has twin diesels in the back of the hulls. My understanding is that the outboards are lighter and can be swung up into the hull to reduce drag, but the inboard diesel engines are considered more reliable and are better for battery charging and auxiliary water heating. I'm not sure which is the better choice...as they seem to say with all things boating...it's a compromise.
Other than the cramped feeling of the cockpit, I'm pretty impressed with this boat. Of course, I don't exactly have a lot of knowledge of these size boats...having only seen a couple of them new at the Annapolis boat show. I do think the PDQ's will likely be on our short list.
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