The Hunt Continues

Ironically within days of the last deal falling through, in addition to a couple boats that were already on our short list, a couple new listings appeared.  One is a Lagoon 37 and another is a Moorings/Leopard 3800. This actually made for a bit of a dilemma...as we really seem to like both boats and can't decide which one to pursue.

vs.

The Lagoon 37 was at the top of our list for a while as we like the amount of space, the configuration of the bunks and the amount of storage.  After giving up on finding a decent Lagoon 37 and looking at the Leopard, we really liked the separate shower, galley up design and layout of the cockpit of it.  It seems for each pro or con we come  up with for one boat, we come up with one for the other boat.  As many people often say, all boats are a compromise...unfortunately it seems that, while each of these boats is very different, they each come up equal to one another in our eyes when all the dust settles.

Funny how life works sometimes, isn't it?

Boat Shopping - The Videos

In my last post, I asked if anyone would be interested in seeing some of the videos I took of various boats during our shopping trips.  There were more than a couple people that replied to either the post or via email that they would like to see anything I had.

So, fair warning...these are not the greatest quality, just shaky cell phone videos with some rather abrupt cuts.  This is also my first experiment with YouTube. I tried using some of the YouTube tools to stabilize a couple of them, but that left other artifacts in the video so I only did that with a couple of them. Please keep in mind that these are completely unstaged.

Lagoon 37

This first set is of the Lagoon 37 that I put an offer in on back in the spring.  The galley layout is not the standard for this boat. The interior video starts with the head located at the rear of the starboard hull, moves through the galley to the Starboard berth, across the bridge deck salon and on to the port forward berth, finally backtracking to the rear port berth.

PDQ 36

This starts in the starboard forward berth, moves down the starboard hull to the head in the rear of that hull.  Then across the bridge deck to the galley in the port hull.  From there it moves forward into the port berth and then back to the port rear quarter berth/storage area.

Fountaine Pajot Tobago 35

I started breaking up the videos here to make them easier to review. So you'll have one for each hull and one for the bridge deck between them. The first one starts in the head in the rear of the port hull and goes to the master berth port forward.

Then a quick pass thru the salon and galley on the bridgedeck from port to starboard.

This one starts in the starboard forward berth.


So, there you have it.  A quick video tour of 3 of the boats we've seen during some of our shopping trips.  I've got one more boat to show you...but six videos in one post seems like a lot so we'll save the other for another post.

Let me know what you think.

Another Shopping Trip (Part 2)

Picking up where I left off in the first post on this trip...

After spending some time on the Leopard, we then worked our way back up the Keys to Key Largo to see a Lagoon 37 that has been for sale for a little while.

We had actually put an offer in on this boat, sight unseen, a couple months ago. The owner countered and we decided that we should see it before going any further. We are glad we did as I think it saved us from an offer higher than it should have been. We really like the design of these boats, it is a shame there aren't more around in better condition and I'm increasingly feeling that we don't want too much of a project for our first big boat. I guess what we really want is a brand new Lagoon 37...with the shoal draft option...but I checked with my broker and he doesn't have a time machine so we appear to be out of luck.  So, at the end of day one we have one contender and one scratched off the list.

The next day, we continued our migration north where we looked at a Fountaine Pajot Tobago 35 in Miami.

This was a nice and obviously well cared for boat. Of the Tobagos that are currently available, this is probably the pick of the litter. This was the three berth, one head version. Inside this boat was about as close to immaculate as any we have seen...a far cry from the other Tobago that had a rotting orange left in the sink when we saw it (not that the other boat was bad...just not cleaned up). Since I've covered the model before I won't go through the whole description and will only note the differences between the first one and this one.  As the 3 berth layout, the second head was replaced by a less than queen width third berth that sits down in the aft hull. One nice feature this boat had was a roller furling screecher (light wind sail) on a bowsprit.

Since our broker did not accompany us to see the Tobago in Texas, this was his first time looking at a Tobago in person. One thing he noted that we didn't think of was that the sink appeared a bit small to wash a full sized plate in. Now why hadn't we noticed that. He did admit the boat had more room than he had expected.

While driving to Miami to see the Tobago, my wife and I discussed the difficulties we've been having finding a Lagoon 37 in reasonable shape. I know that there are some nice Lagoon 37s out there, but the ones that have been on the market recently seem to be overpriced or, in many cases, in rough shape for the price. After seeing the Tobago we came to the realization that there are nice boats out there in our price range that we believe we could easily live on and that trying to hold out for a Lagoon 37 that is in decent shape and properly priced is probably not worth the time lost waiting or our perceived minor advantages of that design over some of the others.

So, what do we do?  Find out in part 3.

New Leads From an Unexpected Source

A few weeks ago I finally managed to post a question to the Cruisers Forum asking for any thoughts regarding what we consider our top two choices for "our boat".  There were some interesting comments, so if you are interested in the Fountaine Pajot Tobago or Lagoon 37, click the link above and check them out.

It seems that the overall consensus was that either boat would be a good option.  Each has pros and cons and it is a very close race in our minds even though the boats are fairly different configurations.  In the end I think we really prefer the Lagoon.

One thing that I didn't expect from my post was to be contacted by a couple of people that owned boats and wanted to sell them and both were Lagoons.  Now ideally we would like to buy a boat that is in the US as it makes the logistics much easier, but both were in the Caribbean. Since we are not finding one in the US, I guess we do need to "broaden  our horizon".

 I had seen the first boat listed on a for sale by owner web site.  I contacted the owner by email and they sent me a couple links to more pictures of the boat.  None of the pictures were high detail and it was unclear when they were taken, so while the boat seemed it could fit the bill, I could not really assess the condition.  Given the advertised price, I assumed the boat would require some work and was curious what it was.  So, I sent another email and asked the owner if they could provide more details about the boat including their assessment of it's condition so neither of us would waste traveling to see it just to find out it wasn't the level of project I was comfortable with.  Unfortunately, instead of getting responses to my questions, the owner decided it was unlikely the boat would work for me. Oh well, I guess if he changes his mind we could pick up the conversation where we left off.

The owner of the second boat left his phone number, so I gave him a call.  We had a nice conversation about his Lagoon and got the impression that this boat was in very good (or to use the proper sailing term "Bristol") condition.  He sent me a number of pictures including some higher resolution ones that support my impression of it's condition.  Of course, this does come at a price.  It is the highest price of any Lagoon I've seen by a pretty fair margin but may well be worth it.  I don't really want to say much more about this boat at this time...but hopefully we are coming one step closer to our new home on the water.

If you've been following for long, you may recall that I was working with a broker.  When I told him about the second boat, he said "go for it" knowing that he may be out a commission because he knows how difficult it has been finding a good Lagoon.  How's that for integrity.  I'm trying to figure if there is a way to keep him in the deal where I would pay his fee without breaking the bank.  I really need to write another post about our broker as he has been great to work with. But for now if you happen to be looking for a decent and honest boat broker that will help you with any size of catamaran purchase, you might want to give Pete Gulick at the Catamaran Company a call.

Update: Unfortunately I can no longer recommend Pete (and never really could recommend the Catamaran Company and its affiliates).

And This is Why You Do a Boat Survey

In my last post I wrote that we were under contract on a Lagoon 37.  Due to the unique nature of boat buying, here's a brief outline of the process for those that haven't experienced it.  You find a boat you like, agree upon a tentative price, and put the boat under contract.  Then the next step is to perform a survey (inspection) and sea trial (test drive).  Once that is complete, included in the contract is an Acceptance Of Vessel (AOV) date.  They buyer has the option to accept the boat, reject the boat, or possibly renegotiate based on the results of the survey.  Once the boat is "accepted" by the buyer, there is a closing and you own the boat.  That's how its supposed to go anyway (according to my understanding).

We just had the survey and sea trial on the Lagoon 37.  Until I set up the appointment, I figured these were two separate things, but apparently they are often done on the same day, particularly when you need to move the boat to the inspection location.  So, after interviewing a few surveyors on the phone, I selected one and we set up the appointment for the survey and sea trial.

We met at the boat and the surveyor started with his "cold" checks of the boat to test systems while hooked up to shore power before the engines are started. Then the engines were started, additional checks were performed and we motored our way to the boat yard for the haul out as the inspector continued to check things out en-route.

Once we got to the boat yard, we had the boat hauled-out (pulled out of the water) so we could power wash and inspect the exterior hull and below the waterline.  This is where the fun started.  Thus far the surveyor had a decent sized laundry list of items, but most of them were known or reasonably small in nature.  By hauling and pressure washing the bottom, he was able to find several items of potential concern with the hull and propulsion system.

Hull Impact?	Propeller
Hull Patch?	How did footprints get here?

After the hull inspection, the boat was placed back in the water for our return trip.  On this trip we took the boat to a reasonably-sized bay to run up the sails to inspect them and see how she sails.  While motoring from the yard to the bay the captain was having difficulty keeping the boat in position as we waited for bridges to open.  Now I'm really not experienced enough to say if the issue was mostly mechanical or pilotage, but the combination of the two was adding to my concern about the condition of the boat and the safety of the remainder of this trip.

The selling agent did convince me to proceed with the sea trial so we continued to the bay and raised the sails.  We had about 10 knots of wind, and the Lagoon 37 did sail pretty well.  We didn't spend very much time under sail as we wanted to make the next opening of a scheduled bridge but it did tack nicely.  We dropped the sails, made the scheduled bridge opening and ended the day with a less than graceful reentry into the boat slip.

Based on the experience and result of the survey, we decided the boat would be much  more work than we were willing to do for our first boat so we decided to "reject the vessel" (inform the seller in writing prior to the AOV date).  It's a bit of a disappointment, but far better to have found out the issues now than after the purchase.

We also found what I think is a good and honest surveyor in Johnathan Sands of Atlantic Marine Group.  While he is based in Ft. Lauderdale, I believe he will work anywhere within Florida...and probably farther.  Give him a call if you need a thorough boat survey.

Did We Really Just Put an Offer in on a Boat?

Catching back up to the present...

On our flight back from Florida we had a lot of thinking to do.  When we were actually looking at the Lagoon, we were in "evaluating the model" mode more than "evaluating this particular boat" mode. After rushing off to see what we thought was our top contender (the PDQ 36) and the PDQ 32, we now wish we had spent a bit more time on this particular Lagoon.

As I had mentioned, it is a bit more of a project than we anticipated for our first boat.  I don't think any of the projects are particularly difficult, but it isn't the "ready to cruise" variety either.  Having been a prior charter boat, the engines have about 5000 hours on them and with unknown maintenance practices may be an issue.  While the main sail is newer, the head sail and spinnaker are currently unknown to us as they were not on the boat at the time (but does have a new roller furling system).  There are a number of small dings in the gel coat and some work in the interior (completing the installation of a new headliner, replacing the cabin sole in the galley, and fixing or replacing some of the galley cabinetry) to take care of.  Several hatches need new friction hinges, the bed cushions require replacement and the salon cushions are worn vinyl and could use new upholstery.

So, after much thought and consideration of the issues and our desires and my abilities, we decided to put in an offer that would give us enough  cushion on the price to bring her to good condition.  We received a counter offer from the owner that was acceptable to us, so we are now under contract.

If you would like to see the listing for the boat, you can find it on YachtWorld here (at least as long as it remains in their database).

Soon we will be heading back to Florida for the survey and sea trial (and trust me, I will be looking over the boat very carefully...as will the inspector I hope). Definitely feeling both nervous and excited at this point. If everything checks out, we may soon have our next home.

A Weekend of Boat Shopping - Day 3

In the past two days of the trip we saw a couple boats that would meet our requirements and a number of others to judge our various "wants" in a boat.  But on day three, we had three boats lined up that all are on our list: A Lagoon 37, a PDQ 36, and a PDQ 32.  I was  particularly looking forward to seeing another PDQ 36 now that we have more of a clue than we did the first time.

Lagoon 37

The first stop was a 1994 Lagoon 37.  The thing that we were the most impressed with was the use of space on the boat.  The cockpit was well laid out and  spacious with ample seating.  The access from the cockpit to the fore deck was nice and wide with good handholds.  Inside the salon area was light and airy with good headroom.  The steps leading into each hull are fairly wide and not too steep.  It is a galley down design with three queen size berths and two heads.
This particular boat had some issues though.  It has obviously been in charter and needed some TLC in general.  Some chips and scratches on the gel coat, some minor water damage to the woodwork, almost 5000 hours on the engines, and the upholstery and cushions could use replacement and/or recovering.

The big catch though is that the boat at one time had some hull damage.  It has been repaired, and from what I can tell repaired well (I couldn't see external signs of the repair).  But, in order to make the repair they had to remove everything in the galley on that side of the hull.  When they replaced the galley, they did some nice things like install Corian countertops and a new refrigerator/freezer.  But the cabinetry itself is kinda sad (cheaply made, incorrectly stained) and I think they downgraded the stove from a 3 burner to a 2 burner.

So, while we were not sure if we are interested in this particular boat, we were impressed with the Lagoon 37 design.

PDQ 36

After the Lagoon, we had a little drive up the coast to see a PDQ 36.  Since I've previously written about this model, I'll just note my new observations.  We remembered the cockpit was rather small, this time it did appear larger to us (or maybe there  are minor differences from year to year). The seating "bench" around the cockpit didn't seem very comfortable or inviting.  Maybe it's not even really a bench, but more of a stair. The access to the forward deck is good, but the stantions and safety lines are ineffective at midship as you need to walk on the cabin roof to go forward and it sits roughly at the level of the top of the stantions.

Inside they use light woods and the salon is inviting.  Having just come from the Lagoon, the PDQ's narrower beam could definitely be felt.  The salon did feel less roomy and the stairs leading down into the hulls are very narrow.  The two forward berths were comparable, but the hulls in general felt a bit narrower on the PDQ.

PDQ 32

The smaller cousin to the PDQ 36 is the PDQ 32.  It is a two berth design with galley down and a single head.  To keep the relatively "standard" lines of a catamaran with a high bridge deck in a smaller boat, the first noticeable thing they did was reduce the headroom in the salon.  I'm not sure what the exact clearance is, but I'd estimate it is at most 5 foot.  To combat this, they put a full slider in the cabin top that sits above the entry, at the back of the salon where you find the isle between the hulls.  In the smaller PDQ, you will also not find an oven, only a stove top.
The particular boat we saw was in somewhat rough shape but was definitely sufficient to rule the model out as insufficient space for what we need.

When this day started, I would have thought that the PDQ 36 would be the boat we would likely end up with.  By the end of the day, as I mentioned in a previous post, we seem to have changed our minds. Everyone claims that all boats area compromise, and we think we like the set of compromises in the Lagoon better than the others. As we pushed to see three boats in a day and make our flight back home, we only had so much time to allocate to each.  I do wish we had spent more time on the Lagoon.

Boat Shopping

This past weekend we went to Florida for a whirlwind boat shopping trip.  I don't have a whole lot of time right now to go through all the details now, so that will be in another post.  We did get to see about a dozen boats and our thoughts on our preference have changed.  Before the trip the PDQ 36 was at the top of our list, but now it seems that the Lagoon 37 may be taking that spot.

We also have a bit of a decision to make.  There happens to be a Lagoon 37 for sale that would work well for us.  The problem is that it is a bit of a "project boat".  There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the hull (and only a survey would tell us that for sure) but there is a lot of cosmetic, interior, and smaller items that need attention (and I'm not just talking about new cushions or refinishing woodwork).  I think it may have been a charter boat at one time as well so re-powering might be an issue.  This of course, comes with a more attractive price point.

Now I'm a fairly handy person and have some knowledge about the types of repairs needed, but am I up for this task.  On the one hand, we would definitely learn a LOT about the boat both working on and working with professionals while we brought the boat into proper condition for us.  On the other hand, do I really want to make my first large boat to be a project to the extent this one will be (definitely beyond the basic refit/update of electronics, sails, etc.)

So, since I have a few followers now, what do you think?  I would have the time to do the work, but should we make our first live-aboard boat a small project?  Decisions...decisions...